Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards takes your questions on Usyk vs. Holyfield, Usyk's place in the all-time heavyweight ranks, he remembers the great Dwight Muhammad Qawi and picks a winner from Roy Jones Jnr and Dmitry Bivol, and plenty more besides.
Hi Breadman, Where do you rank Oleksandr Usyk amongst the greatest heavyweights of all time? Has he cracked the top 10? If so, I'd love to know your personal top 10, and where Usyk slots in. Due to a greater cruiserweight resume than Evander Holyfield, do you agree that Usyk is the cruiserweight GOAT? Qawi was a real battle and great win in a 15-round war, but Usyk tore through a deeper field. Finally, do you think Usyk is now one of the pound for pound all-time greats? As in maybe top 10/15? In your opinion, is he on the level of the likes of Sugar Ray Leonard, Floyd Mayweather and Roy Jones Jnr when it comes to the pound for pound greats that are around top 10/15 of all time? I was at Wembley, sat in decent seats, and watched the great man live. He's otherworldly in that ring, and he's proven himself against the elites of his era. Would love to know where you rank him amongst the greats. Thanks, Sina
Bread’s Response: I rank Usyk really high. But I also don’t want to be a prisoner of the moment and put him ahead of Ali who had 19 title defenses and beat four Olympic champions and seven Hall of Famers. Or Joe Louis who had 25 title defenses and beat eight Hall of Famers. Without forensic research, these are the fighters who I put in the top 10 or 12 heavyweights ever and yes Usyk does fit in. These are the fighters who stand out in history that you can mix and match the order with.
Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, George Foreman, Jack Johnson, Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, Evander Holyfield, Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, Mike Tyson, Sonny Liston, Oleksandr Usyk, Wladimir Klitshko, Vitali Klitshko, Riddick Bowe, Gene Tunney and Jack Dempsey.
Seventeen men in history stand out in my opinion above the rest. Usyk is on that list very short list. I can’t put him in my top five or six. But I do see where you can make a case for him that he should be ranked over Marciano, Liston, Tyson, Frazier, the Klitshkos, Bowe, Dempsey and Tunney.
At crusierweight, I think this is a tough call. Holyfield fought at Crusierweight at 190lbs. Usyk’s weight limit was 200lbs. That’s a big difference. This is why I don’t like to cross eras because there are too many factors to consider. So, their Cruiserweight numbers are about dead even. Usyk has, I believe, two more title defenses. But Holyfield has two wins over a HOF in Dwight Qawi. Usyk had one tough controversial win, vs Maris Breidis. Holyfield was more dominant in my opinion. I think he won the first Qawi fight clean enough although it was officially a split decision. In my opinion it’s close enough to be 1a or 1b type of thing for supremacy.
As far as who would win if they fought at cruiserweight, I think it would be a war. A brutal fight between two men who consistently upped the ante when they were pressed. Both with Olympic pedigree. Both tough to stop or discourage. Today I will say Holyfield wins a decision. I watched Holyfield at cruiserweight specifically from the first Qawi fight, all the way through to the Carlos De Leon fight. Holyfield had six fights from Qawi I, to De Leon including a rematch with Qawi. His improvement at cruiserweight was phenomenal. He literally crushed each opponent, including Qawi in a rematch. His performances were so impressive, Holyfield started to seek out Mike Tyson who at that specific time was considered not only the best heavyweight in the world but the world’s best fighter.
When analyzing fighters, we have to context the moment. If my arm is twisted, and it is being twisted with this question coming up consistently, my pick today would be Holyfield by decision. Based on the trouble Maris Breidis gave Usyk I feel as though Holyfield is a better more offensively dynamic version of Breidis. And style wise, I feel like Holyfield can keep up with Usyk’s bouncy rhythm better than anyone. But he can also fight Usyk on the inside and hit his body, which seems to be the one way to get to Usyk. I believe it’s a close fight and I believe that Usyk would be in it the entire way. But the rough house stuff, the head butting, the low blows, the body shots, all of that stuff plays a part in these types of fights and the fighters from Usyk’s background don’t handle that well. No one who wants Usyk to win this will admit it, but Usyk literally looks at the referee and signals the opponent to keep them up when he’s hit to the body. It’s an obvious “tick” he has, possibly from an experience of being hurt down there. I saw an amateur fight where Arthur Beterbiev dropped whim with a body shot… So, my pick is Holyfield.
I hate doing this because in order to break down these fights, you have to say something that may come across as negative about one of the fighters. And Usyk is turning into my favorite fighter of this era. I love the guy and everything about him. But it’s my job to give an answer. So that’s my answer.
Sup Breadman, three questions: 1) Could you see Parker beating Usyk? Usyk just feels so skilled. Like a better, trickier version of Parker. 2) How do you imagine prime Roy Jones Jnr vs Dmitry Bivol playing out? 3) Good win by Shakur Stevenson. He definitely made his point, doing it by staying in the pocket and putting on a clinic. But my question is about his punching mechanics. Not saying he doesn’t hit hard or has brittle hands - just something about his punching mechanic catches my eye but I can’t put my finger on it. It just looks different. Is there anything about it that you notice that looks different from other fighters? Or am I tripping? Thanks! Alex S.
Bread’s response: Joseph Parker is on one of the better hot streaks in boxing. He has definitely improved under Andy Lee. Parker has a shot of winning against anyone. But that’s not the same as me picking him to beat Usyk. I would strongly favor Usyk to beat Parker.
I think Jones vs Bivol would be a great fight. I think Bivol’s style would be difficult for Jones. Jones likes to play the ropes at times and Bivol is so disciplined, he wouldn’t go for the bait of Captain Hook. Jones would let fighters get off on him up against the ropes, and he would fire a brutal left hook underneath and they would double them over every time. See the Bryant Brannon fight.
I think Jones would have to fight more like he did vs Virgil Hill. In a tactical good fight, I say Jones wins a decision. Close but not controversial.
I think Shakur Stevenson punches hard enough. He’s not a brutal puncher. He doesn’t score a lot knockouts or knockdowns. But he punches hard enough to move through three weight divisions and not have a loss on his record. From my perspective, he gets more leverage on his body shots than he does his head shots. Specifically, his right hook to the body seems to be his most solid shot. But believe it or not, most fighters don’t punch with the same velocity on every punch.
I have hit the pads with several fighters. And rarely have I seen one who punches pretty much the same on each shot. Body mechanics play a big part in this. Sometimes a fighter just doesn’t get the same leverage on each shot. Shakur is no different. He seems to punch harder to the body than he does the head. But, again, he punches hard enough. He also has good stamina and good composure. He keeps his cool and in the second half of fights, his power takes effect. Zepeda was worn down by Shakur’s punches in the last few rounds of the fight.
Hello Stephen, In your last mailbag you mentioned one of my favorites ever, the great Dwight Muhammad Qawi. Sadly, he passed away last weekend. I would like to pass on my condolences. 175 has always been my favorite weight division. As a young man watching guy’s like Dwight, Spinks, Saad Muhammad, Galindez, Johnson, and Conteh, among others during the 70s 80s was unbelievable. So I’m asking you Breadman. Where do rank that era in comparison to other great weight divisions, like the 70’s heavyweights or the middleweights of 20s. Thanks, God Bless, Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Bread’s response: RIP to the Camden Buzzaw. I got to meet Dwight Muhammad Qawi at a boxing gym in New Jersey a few years back. What I noticed about him was he wasn’t a little man. He was just short. He had a broad back, huge, long arms and tree trunk legs. He was just short in stature. He was very engaging, and I had a good brief conversation with him.
As a kid in Qawi’s big fights, I rooted against him. But not out of dislike, more out of not rooting for the bully presence. Qawi had an intimidating smile, build and demeanor. He beat my city’s favorite fighter twice in Matthew Saad Muhammad. The rematch was so big, we had a traditional family fight party for it. Everyone rooted for Saad, except my Uncle Edgar. He kept laughing when Saad, who was a puncher, would hit Qawi and Qawi would just smile. He even warned me before the fight, that “pads don’t hit back”. In the build-up footage before the rematch, I saw a fighter hit the pads for the first time in Saad. I was impressed but my Uncle Edgar warned me. I learned that lesson long ago.
Back to Qawi, he was precise and destructive as he stopped Saad again. Later he fought Michael Spinks. I didn’t watch that one live, but I was scared he would hurt Spinks, although I rooted for Spinks. I was delighted to see Spinks win. A few years later, I was in love with the 1984 Olympic team. On a hot summer afternoon, I decided to turn on ABC. As I turned it on, Evander Holyfield was in the ring getting ready to fight one of the most intimidating fighters I had ever seen up until that point. This was a brutal war, where I feared for Holyfield. Again, I was thankful he won but Qawi attacked my nerves. He didn’t seem to feel pain or distress. Looking back on Qawi’s career and the era I have found myself having as much respect for Qawi as any fighter of the era.
Qawi turned out to be a HOF after a late boxing start because of a prison stint. What’s incredible is he prospered in the deepest and best light heavyweight era ever. You ask me to rank the late 70s/early 80s light heavyweights; it’s the best light heavyweight era ever. It produced four HOF in Michael Spinks, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Victor Galindez and Qawi, who made it the very with the least amount of amateur pedigree. He was thrown right in the fire very early in his career and he came out the fire a HOF diamond. That’s very impressive and it shouldn’t be understated. The Qawi era at 175lbs, is the best era ever of light heavyweights. And I would say a top 10 or 15 era ever of any weight division.
Breadman, do you genuinely think that Boots does a number on Fundora easily? The new reinvented Fundora is a nightmare for everyone in and around this division, Boots included.
Bread’s response: I would pick Boots to beat Fundora, but I will admit it has the possibility to be a very hard fight for him if he doesn't clip Fundora. Fundora has improved. He also has fighting spirit and a big heart. I’m very impressed with him. But I think Boots’ physical strength, body punching, chin, conditioning, and most of all, hard looping shots, will allow him to win a thriller. But I have no delusions with my pick. If Boots is not on his A game, Fundora is capable of pulling it off.
Hey Bread, I just listened to an interview with Joe Pyfer on the Shaun Ryan Show. He is a UFC fighter out of Philly, maybe you have heard of him? I do not watch UFC but his story is a tough one. Physical abuse from the age of five until 15 as his father trained him in MMA. You talk about how many fighters are brought up in these environments. Can you speak to that a little bit more from your experience as a trainer? How common is it? How many could have been great but could not beat the demons of their past? Anyway, I don't recommend things like this typically, but I would encourage you and your readers to give it a listen. It is sad but also inspirational. Cory, Iowa
Bread’s response: I have never heard of Joe Pyfer. I did take a quick look at his story and he certainly had it tough. God bless him. From my experiences, your environment and life experiences shape you. But it’s not a cookie cutter journey. Sometimes you can have two people that have the same experiences and one will break and the other will prosper.
For fighters in general, I observe this closely. I don’t intrude on their past, but as time goes on, their past reveals itself. I listen. And by no coincidence, all of the fighters I have trained have hardship stories that shape them. They come from all socioeconomic backgrounds but again they all had something to forge their fires. I have heard about abuse from their parents and siblings, mental health conditions like ADHD, enabling from the parents, Spartacus-like treatment from a parent to everything in between. I’ve learned to use these past experiences to help me get through to them. A trainer’s job is not easy but it becomes easier once you learn how to get through to a fighter. And knowing their background is the easiest way to do it.
Hello Breadman! I am writing in about Crawford vs Canelo, as I'm sure many are. Canelo appears to have innate and old school ability to ride and roll with punches. He takes the steam off punches like nobody in this era seems to be able to do. He sees everything coming. I think Bud can win, however, I just can't figure out how and when he can hit Canelo flush to rattle him, given Canelo's defensive ability. Dan, Brookhaven
Bread’s response: Canelo is surely a great defensive fighter. When a fighter is not retreating, then often times they don’t get credit for great defense. But Canelo’s defense is the truth. I actually think he’s the best defensive fighter since Floyd Mayweather retired. Canelo mixes the highest level of attacking offense with elite defense since Mayweather. Canelo’s defense reminds me of James Toney’s and Roberto Duran’s. Canelo also has a great chin which makes his defense even better because when he is hit clean, he takes it in stride.
But Crawford doesn’t have to stop Canelo or beat him up. All he has to do is outpoint him over 12 rounds. You also have to remember that Crawford is smaller and he should be quicker. He may not be able to hit Canelo with a gun shot, but he will hit him. Crawford has a unique punch sequence and Crawford’s is this era’s most underrated body puncher. Crawford counters to the body like Mike McCallum. No one ever goes to Canelo’s body…
Yo Bread, Okala from London here. We've not met but I've been reading your mailbag since the Boxing Talk days - appreciate your knowledge and the way you share it. Couple of questions from me about Usyk: Firstly, I think it's pretty clear we're looking at an all-time great here. How do you think he would fare against my man Lennox Lewis? We know that Lennox could be knocked out with great timing, and there are questions over his durability, but Lennox is a great fighter who really understood length and he landed his right uppercut on everyone and that thing is hellish. Who you got? Second question, I've seen a few people say Usyk should consider unifying at cruiserweight again because he's pretty much got the heavyweight division on tap, but at his age and the length of time he's been there, would that not be dangerous for him? I mean in terms of maintaining cardio, musculature, same level of quick twitch fibres etc. It makes me think of Roy Jones going back down to 175lbs and losing his superpowers. I know it's not jumping TWO divisions like Roy did, but Roy weighed 193lbs vs Ruiz, then came in against Tarver at 175. In comparison, Usyk weighed 227.3 against Dubois this last Saturday - so it would be an even bigger weight cut. Just wondered your thoughts as I'm not any kind of athlete! I also guess 20 years is a long time in medical science! Perhaps if they ever met, Usyk and Opetaia could do a catchweight?
Thanks man, keep shining, Okala
Bread’s response: I know Lennox Lewis was stopped twice by fighters that he should’ve beaten. And it’s the reason why Lewis is not rated higher on the ATG list. But head-to-head, Lewis may be the hardest heavyweight match up ever. I can literally envision a day where he could beat anyone. Some fighters are just incredibly tough head-to-head. Tommy Hearns is like that for welterweights. Roy Jones for middleweights. Lewis for heavyweights.
Usyk would have his moments, but I don’t believe he would beat Lennox. Lennox would have to solve Usyk’s rhythm. But Usyk would have to deal with Lennox’s clutch punch selection, jab, and IQ. Lewis wasn’t known as a body puncher but he could body punch. And his uppercut was money. I like Lewis in this fight, I can’t say how but I like Lewis.
Usyk seems to have boxing conditioning figured out. I believe in the Ukrainian sports science system. Usyk isn’t known to be a puncher and no one talks about his physical strength. But watch him closely. He’s not only the most conditioned fighter in the ring, but he’s the strongest. If Usyk went back down to cruiserweight, I would trust him and his team to know what they’re doing.
Hey Bread, I watched Usyk's press conference and he said some very interesting things - would love to have your thoughts. 1) There are only 3 punches: straight, hook, uppercut. Everything else is combinations. 2) Discipline is better than motivation. Motivation is temporary, discipline is permanent. 3) He chooses his ring music Ave Maria as it makes him think of God. 4) He prays every day and believes this life is temporary before the next one. Very powerful words I thought, amazingly deep - as another deep thinker it would be cool to get your take. He seems not just a special fighter but a special person. All the best, Max Williams
Bread’s response: 1) He’s basically correct but I would add an overhand shot. 2) 100 per cent Discipline > motivation all day long. Motivation is doing what you’re inspired to do at that time. Discipline is doing what is needed at all times, no matter how you feel. No matter how motivated you are, or are not.
3) Ring walk music is very important for a fighter to tap into.
4) There are no atheists in foxholes.
I feel like every sport has a past player that, whenever they comment or do interviews, come across as the bitter old man. Every sport has their designated bitter old man. Basketball has Oscar Robertson. Baseball has Goose Gossage (I would've said Bob Feller if he were still alive). Football has... I don't know, I'm more of a casual football fan. Who would you say is boxing's bitter old man? I'm inclined to say Larry Holmes. In every interview I've seen of him, he seems to go out of his way to denigrate those who came before him (like Ali and Marciano) while hyping himself up. I get the sense that he feels like history and fans have disrespected him and not given him the credit he deserves. What do you think? Is the Easton Assassin boxing's bitter old man or do you think someone else holds that distinction? I'm trying to think of who else could hold that title but nobody else comes to mind. You know your boxing history, so I'll put the question to you.
Bread’s response: I don’t want to single Larry Holmes out although I have heard his comments about other fighters. Most notably Tyson, Marciano, and Ali. But I think it’s a thing in all sports. 90 per cent of the ex-fighters I have met are bitter. 95 per cent of the trainers are. It’s just one of those things. Almost everyone feels like they don’t get enough credit and, unfortunately, they don’t know how to express it without saying something degrading about their fellow participants.
I once went to award ceremony for young active fighters. I swear you couldn’t hear the announcements of the awards because the old timers were in their own circle telling war stories of how they were slighted in their careers. It disgusted me so bad, after my fighter received his award, I got up and left. Holmes is certainly not the only one who comes across as bitter. It’s an overwhelming majority.
Dear Breadman, I’m writing to you with a heavy heart today my man, having just heard the news about the passing of the great Dwight Muhammad Qawi. My first instinct after processing that was: I have to write Bread. I’ve mentioned in the past – you and I are about same age (I was born in ‘75) and growing up in South Jersey, “just over the bridge” from Philly, Dwight Braxton (as he was known at the time) was the first local boxing star of my lifetime and the first professional boxer I ever met. My grandparents owned a deli in Westville NJ, just a couple storefronts down from a golden gloves boxing gym in the 80s and the boxers used to come into the deli for drinks and food after working out. Shortly after his showcase performance against Leon Spinks, Dwight Braxton came in the deli one day and couldn’t have been friendlier or nicer to our family and anyone else in the store that day, taking pictures and signing autographs. I couldn’t have been older than 5-7 years old at the time, but I’ll never forget him. He was my first favorite fighter and I still remember those Puma boxing shoes he used to wear (I’ve liked Puma my whole life because of him, lol). You just mentioned him in last week’s breadbasket ironically, and I wanted to write asking you to do a deep dive breakdown on our local legend like no one else could. I know he started boxing late (in prison if I’m not mistaken but that could be incorrect) and went much farther than most who started much younger than him. As you just mentioned, he was very short for his weight class, though that didn’t prevent him from becoming a world champion and giving both Michael Spinks and Evander Holyfield all the trouble they could handle in brave losing efforts. He even hung in there pretty impressively for a few rounds with Big George at the tail end of his career fighting heavyweight. It was the one and only time I ever watched George Foreman fight that I wasn’t rooting for George. One last thing I want to mention is, working in mental health, I had learned the former Champ had been working as a drug and alcohol counselor down here in Atlantic County a few years ago, and I regret not having the opportunity to cross paths with him professionally, but it never happened. Anyway, could you give us a breakdown of the career Dwight Muhammad Qawi, the Camden Buzzsaw (may Allah forgive him his sins and grant him Paradise). Thanks Bread, Sean, Atlantic City
Bread’s response: Dwight Muhammad Qawi is an ATG light heavyweight. He’s one of the most intimidating fighters ever. If you were around in the 80s and you saw what he did to the great Matthew Saad Muhammad you would know. If you saw that he went up to Rahway State Prison and took on bad ass James Scott and beat him then you would know what Qawi was. Qawi got a late start to boxing and had a draw in his pro debut and a loss in his third fight to the tough Johnny Davis. Then he went on a tear, avenged both the loss and draw and fast tracked to a title shot at 15-1-1. Now for context. We see fighters today who are world level amateurs fight for world titles in a short number of fights. But how often do you see fighters with 17 fights, three years pro experience, and be ready to fight ATG in Matthew Saad Muhammad with no real amateur background?
By contrast today, a fighter like Qawi does not exist. They just don’t. No promoter would take the chance with investing in him. And once the matchmakers and managers see that he could fight, they would steer the contenders away from him. In the 70s and 80s, the Davis brothers, Mike Rossman and James Scott were willing to fight Qawi without a title being on the line. Today that doesn’t happen.
Qawi is also one of the best short fighters ever. Meaning out of the fighters who are three or more inches shorter than the division average, he’s in the top five per cent. For context he’s the shortest light heavyweight champion ever and he’s the shortest cruiserweight champion ever. He also has one of the best jabs ever. I can’t think of many fighters with better jabs than Qawi. Qawi was stopped twice in over 50 fights. And that’s with a style that came forward all the time. The two fighters to stop him were Evander Holyfield and George Foreman when he was well into his thirties. Qawi was a legitimate great fighter and it took two ATG fighters in Michael Spinks and Evander Holyfield in their primes to take his titles away.
Qawi was also innovative and before his time. Look at the promotion of his fight with Spinks. And you will see Qawi doing 80s version of cryotherapy among other things. At the end of the day, without favorable matchmaking. Without being babied. Dwight Qawi rose to prominence in a Golden Era, by being a man’s man.
What were your thoughts on the Top Rank card this past weekend? Is Vargas the real deal? How far can Xander go? I read on your X account where you wrote that all around fighters like Xander may not get appreciated until they step up in competition because their gifts is in their adjustments not so much their offensive firepower. I didn’t quote you but I believe that’s what you meant. Can you expand on that please and tell me how you think Xander does against the field at 154?
Bread’s response: I believe Emiliano Vargas will be a world champion. He’s just going to have to be patient with Top Rank’s movement. Vargas is in a tough division and he’s going to have be mature when he sees fighters he feels he's better than get opportunities before him. But, overall, I think he’s the real deal. I see some good stuff. He’s fast, reactive, sharp, and creative. The only think I wonder about is, if he does everything too fast. Young fighters become infatuated with their greatest gifts. And Vargas is fast and powerful. So, if he learns how to change up his speed and not try to be so fast with everything, he’s going to be very tough to beat, especially if he can catch as good as he can pitch.
Sometimes all-round fighters take longer to appreciate. Just look at fighters like Bernard Hopkins and Winky Wright. Hopkins was the underdog vs Tito Trinidad despite Hopkins being a lifelong middleweight and Tito starting at welterweight. Wright was the underdog vs Mosley and Trinidad and he beat both clean. All-round fighters’ gifts are in their adjustments and they don’t always show up at the showcase stages.
Xander was being compared to the great Puerto Rican greats. Well Wilfred Benitez had freak reflexes. Cotto was a big puncher who could box. And Tito Trinidad was a fast, dynamic, heavy-handed attacker. Xander is his own fighter. He seems to be an all-round technician with good legs. So, he wasn’t knocking the socks off public opinion as he rose to the title. But that doesn’t mean he’s not good. It just means his gifts lie different places. I think the style Xander used to win the title, will be what he is at the top level. A solid boxing, technician.
I thought Xander looked good in his title winning effort. His conditioning was good. His footwork was better than good. And he showed chops down the stretch when he got a little tired. That was a very good title winning performance.
However, I still don’t know how well Xander does with the elite of the division. But I will say I think he’s improving. My guess is he would beat Tellez and Tszyu. I believe he’s 50/50 with Jesus Ramos. I would favor Ortiz, Ennis and Fundora over him at the moment. Lubin, Madrimov, Bohachuk and Bakhram are all good fights depending on who’s having their best day. I know you guys may think Bakhram destroys him but I want to see Bakhram vs more than Tszyu before I get too crazy with the praise.
Charles Conwell is an interesting fight. At one time I would’ve heavily favored Conwell but I don’t know how Conwell’s confidence would be if he faced Xander right now, after Xander defeated the fighter who defeated him. Boxing is about timing and Xander would have the momentum advantage over Conwell at this moment.
Hello Breadman, It seems you are a little critical of Usyk. I don’t get why. On Larry Holmes you said Holmes could not get credit for unifying because he was given the IBF title . However, I also read where you said Boots Ennis was unified and was beating the best available guys. But Boots did not win the IBF title in the ring, he also was given the title. So it can’t go both ways. You said in the last mailbag that Usyk being credited with another lineal championship was a farce. How can that be when he fought the guy with the title? He fought the champion. He fought the best available guy. And he put up three titles to one. He risked more than he was winning. I am a huge Boots Ennis fan. I think he owns everything at 154 and above. But there is no way to compare his resume to either Holmes or Usyk. The two guys you want to see Usyk fight are not even in his division. No more backhanded compliments to Usyk. If he quit now he has done enough. He fought the champion, he fought the best available guy. Respect, J.B.
Bread’s response: I called Usyk an ATG and he has less than 30 career fights. I want you think about your criticism of my assessment of Usyk, before you criticize my assessment of Usyk. Usyk may be the only ATG heavyweight in history with less than 30 career fights and only eight in the division.
I said Holmes never unified. I don’t have a problem with him being given the IBF belt. It was a new organization and the IBF needed a reputable champion. So, they gave Holmes and Aaron Pryor belts. But you do know there was a WBA belt available. I know Holmes beat Mike Weaver before Weaver won the WBA title. And the common thought is why waste time fighting Weaver for a unification when he already beat him. But context is important.
Holmes was WBC champion for seven years from 1978 to 1985. During that time there were five WBA heavyweight champions. John Tate, Mike Weaver, Michael Dokes, Gerry Coetzee, and Greg Page. When assessing greats, you have to nitpick to make evaluations at the top level. Holmes would have been favorite to beat everyone I named. But he didn’t fight them. Mike Tyson won the WBC in 1986 and was able to unify the same belts that Holmes didn’t within a year of winning the title. That’s a fact.
I have no issue with someone writing in and challenging me. Just make sure you have your ducks lined up. I don’t know why you brought Boots Ennis into this. But, again, you fail to contextualize your statements. Holmes never fought in a unification match as the WBC or IBF champion. Boots fought the WBA champion in a unification match. This is not an opinion. It’s a fact. Boots also would not take step aside money from the IBF champion. He wanted to fight. He wasn’t able to get the fight as the mandatory and after winning the interim IBF he was elevated to full champion.
You’re conflating my comments. I wasn’t criticizing Holmes for not winning the IBF in the ring. Again, the organization had to start somewhere. What I said was Holmes never unified. Maybe you didn’t know this, but Holmes was the WBC champion long before the IBF was ever started. Holmes won the WBC championship in 1978, the IBF didn’t award him their inaugural belt until 1983. Holmes was last champion in 1985.
Usyk knocked Dubois out. Was stripped of his belt. Dubois became interim champion and was then elevated and then Usyk knocked him out again. I wasn’t insulting Usyk. I wasn’t discrediting him, but he should have never been stripped in the first place. If the world was a fair place, Dubois would have been another title defense. But instead it was a unification match. I don’t have an issue with Usyk beating Dubois again. Dubois earned the fight and the first fight had a controversial moment. My issue is the two-time lineal tag, when Usyk never lost the belt in the first place.
In your haste to defend Usyk, you didn’t realize I was NOT attacking him. There is nothing bad to say about Usyk, he’s special. He consistently takes on the best available opponent, often on the road and he has won every time. What can you say about a man like that?
I wasn’t comparing Boots to Usyk and Holmes. You were, in a baseless statement of "whataboutism". And don’t tell me no more backhanded compliments towards Usyk. I don’t do backhanded compliments, but this is my mailbag, don't forget that. If you want to see Usyk praised more, then start a fan page for him and praise him all you want. I don’t know what else I can say about a fighter that I have praised for the last decade or so.
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